tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post2522080829779766275..comments2024-01-31T15:10:55.111+00:00Comments on Transition Quaker: The Way of a Ship in the SeaCraig Barnetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16201061939693242954noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-51200869487203475362018-01-11T00:54:03.300+00:002018-01-11T00:54:03.300+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-84025858466301871712018-01-10T23:29:45.158+00:002018-01-10T23:29:45.158+00:00Hello Gerard. I just now noticed your response. If...Hello Gerard. I just now noticed your response. If I am not too late to ask, I am wondering if you can point me to instances where Fox would have made a distinction between Jesus and the Christ within Jesus? I know you referred to "early Friends", but most of what I have available is Fox. I can't say I have run across such a distinction in either Fox, Crisp, George Fox the younger, Barclay's Apology (modern English version), or the bits of Penington I have. If it is something I have available, I would like to see where you are getting this sense of separation. <br /><br />Thanks, Ellis HeinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-81176638902656323402017-12-26T12:15:25.077+00:002017-12-26T12:15:25.077+00:00The use of 'Christ' by the early Friends w...The use of 'Christ' by the early Friends was sometimes confusing. Sometimes they meant Jesus and other times the Christ within Jesus, as this Inward Light (Seed, Kingdom of God) was in 'all people on the Earth'. Always we need to acknowledge that the central core of the early Quakers, as with Jesus, was the Kingdom. They gave the Kingdom quite a number of names such as the Inward Light. Modern Friends, along with Quaker historians continue to make the mistake of disassociating the early Friends' understanding of the Kingdom from their understanding of the Inward Light of the Christ. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08959881534542495592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-31663384512658729222017-12-24T01:57:36.659+00:002017-12-24T01:57:36.659+00:00Friend Craig, thank you. You describe perfectly th...Friend Craig, thank you. You describe perfectly the turmoil taking place in church and state (one and the same at that time in GB). I would encourage Woodturnedart to consider that the newly translated Bible was commonly the only book in a household (5% of the population could read). Thus the Bible’s contents provided common terminology. Fox quite boldly moved the external to the internal. <br />Peace, <br />Lyn CopeLynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01748599948278177728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-24205862127871770862017-12-23T21:14:13.247+00:002017-12-23T21:14:13.247+00:00Friend Craig, Thanks so much for this. I have sha...Friend Craig, Thanks so much for this. I have shared portions of it on Facebook.<br /><br />Blessings,<br />Mike ShellMike Shellhttps://emptypath.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4497531321890746707.post-27032492559660038202017-12-21T03:28:22.179+00:002017-12-21T03:28:22.179+00:00In reading through Fox's Journal, I have never...In reading through Fox's Journal, I have never had a sense that his early troubles arose from the chaos of civil war and the breakdown of the ecclesiastical structure of the Church of England. I am wondering what additional information you have access to that links those early struggles to the outward chaos at that time?<br /><br />I also see this sentence, "They discovered for themselves a source of inward guidance that they identified as the same inner Spirit of Truth that had been in Christ and the Biblical prophets." If you read Fox's Journal, you can't help but notice that Fox states over and again that Christ himself is the inward teacher, not "the same inner Spirit of Truth that had been in Christ." See page 74 of Vol. 1 of the Works, the passage containing the celebrated line, "then, Oh! then I heard a voice which said, 'There is one, even Christ Jesus that can speak to thy condition.'" But do not stop with that phrase, but keep reading and you will see the centrality of Christ's presence. See Fox's account of his commission beginning on the bottom of page 89, and see Fox's sermon at Firbank fell beginning on the bottom of page 142 for example. <br /><br />It may be that people find these non-specific terms such as "the Spirit", "the Light, the Inward Teacher, or the Inward Guide to be less objectionable than refering to Jesus Christ. But for Fox and the early Quakers, these terms were inseperable from Christ himself. When you write about these concepts, as though they had a life of their own, how can you call this the "Quaker way." The "Quaker way" never divorced these terms from the immediate and intimate association with Jesus Christ himself. Read Edward Burrough's introduction to Vol. 3 of the Works of Fox. I find that people prefer these disembodied terms because they are more comfortable, yet the Quaker experience began in the fire of inward, direct encounter with Christ, who alone is the sure guide in the trackless sea. Stephen Crisp stood up to leave meeting because it was hopeless to control his wandering mind. The voice of the Lord thundered within him, "That which grows weary of waiting must die." Margaret Fell was so struck by the convicting power of Jesus Christ that she cried in her spirit, "We are thieves, we are thieves..." These are not comfortable beginnings. But they did not obtain life by way of comfortable beginnings. And neither have I.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com